Lorna Dueck on the Christian
Church and sex
Globe and Mail Update
A prominent Canadian Anglican bishop has touched off a heated debate by
saying the Christian church has a deeply flawed understanding of sex
that has led to morally groundless objections to birth control,
abortion and homosexuality.
In particular, the church has been wrong for centuries on the notion
that sex exists only for the purpose of procreation, Right Rev. Michael
Ingham, bishop of the Greater Vancouver Diocese of New Westminster,
says.
"Christianity as a religion stands in need of a better theology of
sexuality," he said, "a better understanding of the complex role
sexuality plays in our human nature and of the purposes of God in
creating us as sexual beings."
He said the church has misunderstood references to homosexuality in the
Bible, wasted energy in persecuting individuals who have argued for a
new understanding of sexuality, and failed to comprehend how much the
Bible and church doctrines have been shaped through the lens of male
experience.
Some leaders and theologians in the Anglican Church welcomed the
bishop's remarks. Others felt he went too far.
"He is largely correct in his claim that theological work, by and
large, on the nature of human sexuality has been largely underwhelming
in its scope and that such work is urgently but prudentially needed,"
said Dr. Darren Marks, a professor of theology at Huron University
College, University of Western Ontario, in London, Ont.
Fellow theologian Dr. Gary Badcock said the bishop's arguments rest on
"slender foundations."
"The fact of the matter is that Judaism, prior to Christianity,
universally rejected homosexuality," he said. As for the argument that
procreation is not truly basic to human sexuality, Dr. Badcock said the
procreative aspect can't be ignored.
Right Rev. Barry Clarke, bishop of the Diocese of Montreal, said he has
long admired Bishop Ingham's forthrightness and agrees "wholeheartedly"
with his concerns about the church's understanding of sexuality. But he
cautioned any debate must avoid the trap of "discussing only genital
sexuality."
What do you think?
Have the church's teachings made you question your understanding of
sex? Have its moral objections to birth control, abortion,
homosexuality and other sexual issues affected your opinions?
We were very pleased that prominent Christian journalist Lorna Dueck
joined us earlier today for a question-and-answer program on this issue.
Ms. Dueck writes a column for The Globe and Mail, and hosts Listen Up
TV, a weekly newsmagazine on spiritual perspectives in current events,
seen Sundays on Global TV, Saturday on CTS, Salt and Light TV and
Christian Channel.
Editor's Note: We were pleased to have Ms. Dueck take your questions on
this issue Friday. This was not one of our usual hour-long live
discussions. Rather, this was an online question-and-answer session.
Your questions and Ms. Dueck's answers appear at the bottom of this
page.
We will follow the same policy for this
Q&A as we do for our normal hour-long discussions. globeandmail.com
editors will read and allow or reject each question/comment.
Comments/questions may be edited for length or clarity. HTML is not
allowed. We will not publish questions/comments that include personal
attacks on Ms. Dueck, Globe journalists or other participants in these
discussions, questions/comments that make false or unsubstantiated
allegations, that purport to quote people or reports where the
purported quote or fact cannot be easily verified, or
questions/comments that include vulgar language or libellous
statements. Preference will be given to readers who submit
questions/comments using their full name and home town, rather than a
pseudonym.
Brodie Fenlon from Globeandmail.com: Hello
Lorna. Thank you so much for joining us today for a question and answer
session on sexuality and the Christian church. Many of our readers'
questions today address the tension - some would say chasm - that
exists between human sexuality, pleasure and sexual identity, and the
traditional teachings of the church.
Like many readers, DJ from Canada
asks about the belief held by some that sex should be solely for the
purpose of procreation. DJ wonders if Christians are supposed to feel
guilt and shame at the obvious physical pleasure derived from it. And
if not, how is this justified within the Christian framework? In a
similar vein, John Silvernman asks about those couples who
can't procreate for a variety of reasons, such as menopause or physical
limitation. Are they allowed to engage in sexual activity? Others, like
Kevin Knelman from Brampton, asked if
this emphasis on the procreative nature of sex is proclaimed and
defended in the bible. Does religion view sexuality as a necessary evil
to be indulged only to create offspring?
Lorna Dueck: The Christian Bible's
first directive to male and female was to go have sex. Immediately out
of that activity, God tells the human creation they will discover
multiplication, the process of being a creator in the world. Christian
doctrine believes this was God's invitation to humanity to live out
their relationship of being able to be a creator; we are made "in the
image of God" so this power of being involved in making new life is
given to humanity, and its deeply pleasurable to create new life. If
you're sticking to the Bible story on this, God's evaluation to
describe this sexual activity is "good." However, that same storyline
on sex in the Bible is, with breathless speed, soon marked by a curse,
a divine curse caused by human choices to ignore God. To make a long
story short enough for online dialogue, that's why we are messing
around with pain and sex, church teachings and sex. There's only one
clear story I find in the Bible where we get back to the beauty of the
sexual process God started in the world. It's in Solomon's Song of
Songs, a sexual passage much longer than the creative sexual passage.
It is absolutely a pleasurable, provocative, read by candle light,
spiritual reading in which only the most devout could think of these
Biblical words as purely allegorical of the relationship between Christ
and the soul. So to conclude your question Kevin, I would argue that
the whole of Christian thought on sexuality is that the original intent
of God was that the experience and the procreation that naturally
derives from sex was intended to be a profoundly pleasurable
experience. Discussions like this remind us we have the ability to cut
away a lot of the theological wrangling that has been painful to
people.
Eric Wong from Hamilton: I always
wonder about religion's view on sex, in this case Christianity's, and
the fact that it was developed under a certain set of circumstances in
a certain time period for a certain group of people, and if it is
relevant to the circumstances now for us as a society? Back then
abstaining from premarital sex was probably a very good idea, seeing as
people got married at 14 years of age. But now, people are not getting
married until their mid-20's, and I think if we repress these natural
instincts and behaviours, they will manifest in some other (possibly
negative) form. What do you think?
Lorna Dueck: Yes they will as natural
instincts have a lot of traction on sex. I was reading Laura Session
Stepp, author of "Unhooked; How young women pursue sex, delay love, and
lose at both." It's an insightful look at human sexual desire outside
of theistic help. If sexual desire is part of our identity given by God
then deciding how to handle its energy must be questions we take to
God, which can be argued, is how the church has gotten itself so
embroiled in sexuality. On a lighter note, I was taking a class
recently with some youth pastors who went into an explicit discussion
on masturbation and how these discussions unfold amongst teenagers. It
was both funny, and frank. I couldn't help but think that the real work
of helping people understand their sexuality and God is done far from
the ivory towers and rather in relationship with people who understand
and care about each other.
Bob in Chilliwack: What does the church says regarding sexual relations between a husband and wife outside of intercourse.
Lorna Dueck: Formally, it doesn't say
much about this area. But the example given to marital love in the New
Testament is to love as Christ loved, which would mean pleasure is
respectful and honoring of choice.
Brodie Fenlon from Globeandmail.com: We
had several questions asking whether the Christian church lacks
relevance and is losing adherents because of its teachings on
sexuality. God Free from Kingston asked if the church's views
on birth control, abortion, homosexuality and other sexual issues, plus
its rejection of empirical scientific evidence on issues like
evolution, is driving people away from the pews in the developed world.
Cameron Reid from Toronto asked if Rev. Ingham's statements represent a "giant leap forward towards making churches relevant again?"
Lorna Dueck: I do think many church
leaders read the headline demanding a "better theology on sex" and said
"at last!" Obviously the public invites discussion on sexuality and
Christianity must continue to apply the teachings of Jesus to this
topic if it is to have any relevance.
M David from Ottawa: I was surprised
that the bishop of New Westminister included abortion as an example
along with birth control and homosexuality, since the reasons many
Christian opposed abortion are usually very different from the reasons
they oppose homosexual practice or, in some cases, birth control.
Christians generally do not oppose abortion as some sort of sexual sin,
but because of ethical questions surrounding the rights of the fetus,
and about when human beings become 'persons'. Do you think Bishop
Ingham's comments may confuse the issue for some people?
Lorna Dueck: I don't think it's wise
to make any conclusion about Bishop Ingham's comments as we read them
in the press; they are fragmented and partial and yes, confusing. It
should be noted the Bishop was asked to do this Q and A and declined,
that's too bad for all of us.
Brodie Fenlon from Globeandmail.com: We
did ask Bishop Ingham to join us today for this discussion. A
spokesperson told us the bishop was not available because of a busy
schedule.
Patrick O'Neil from Guelph: Lorna,
are you familiar with Pope John Paul the Great's Theology of the body
and an earlier papal encyclical Humanae Vitae? Do you think it's
possible that this Anglican bishop can actually be ignorant of some of
the significant theological work that has been done on the topic of
sex? Finally, in your experience, do you believe greater communication
between Protestant and Catholic theologians would create a greater
understanding of this topic? My comment and concern is that Bishop
Ingham is wholly dismissive of both scripture and Christian tradition,
and that from that perspective, it is absolutely impossible to develop
any theology that could properly be called Christian.
Lorna Dueck: Yes and no to all of the
above, but especially yes to it would be excellent to have greater
communication between Protestants and Catholics on our understandings
of sexuality. I like how you bring up the elephant in the room: What
can "properly be called Christian?" One of the most uncomfortable
things in our faith is that Jesus did not come to simply affirm
whatever we felt like doing. In this new theological re-appraisal of
sex, we would like to conclude that "whatever humanity thinks is best =
God's goodness." Sometimes God's teaching goes against the grain of
what we want to be doing. (That's why Jesus said people would hate him
and his followers.) If God wasn't going to do something new and against
the grain with our lives, there would be no point in God speaking into
our lives in the first place.
Jack Sparrow from Windsor: At one
time Christians believed that women were not full partners in the
reproduction of another human being, but rather incubators for a man's
child. Christians no longer believe this. Why then do some of them
believe that the authors of Leviticus have it right regarding same sex
relationships?
Lorna Dueck: Jack, I wish I could
answer this better for you, but I can't speak for the isolation of one
scriptural passage on this difficult issue, just as the "incubator"
argument was never grounded in scripture. I'm a great believer that God
loves homosexuals and lesbians, and am puzzled in the mystery of the
tensions they live in spiritually. Personally, I do believe God calls
homosexuality to conform to the one flesh creative model that
originated in the beginning of Scripture, and for many that will mean
celibacy.
Laura Woof from Langley: How do you propose that the church re-evaluates its Gnostic view on sexuality?
Lorna Dueck: By good teaching on the
nature, character and activity of God. My very limited understanding on
Gnosticism is that Gnostics believed we should be delivered from sex,
that all things physical about us are lower, or just a base part to be
shunned and just our soul and its experiences are of value. If that
were true, the God we believe to be the creator of the world (and
Gnostics believe that too), would not have left us with such a vast
physical world, a world of beauty around us. Nor, if I can quote a
favourite pastor of mine (Rev. Bruxy Cavey), Would God have created a
sexual organ on a woman's body whose only purpose is pleasure?
Brodie Fenlon from Globeandmail.com:
We had several questions by readers trying to reconcile their
understanding of homosexuality and God's creation of sexual beings in
His likeness. Barret Cressman from Guelph asked why Christians have a problem with homosexual sex and what is the biblical justification for this opposition. John Ridout from Canada
wonders if all of God's creation was declared by Him to be good, then
are we not called by God to be faithful and obedient to our gifted
sexual nature and to express it through relationships that are rooted
in love? Also, he asks, if God graces us with sexual desire, then isn't
it inconceivable that a loving God would gift humans with a homosexual
nature and then expect/ask/demand that they not experience or express
their sexual desire?
Lorna Dueck: No, I don't think all
sexual desires are meant to be expressed. That results in sin, and the
Bible is full of examples of sex gone crazy and the pain that it
causes. This is weak of me, I know, but I would really prefer to have a
homosexual Christian be able to answer this compilation of questions,
as they so are deeply intimate and personal on what it means to be
human. I can only answer from the limited understanding that our sexual
identity was never meant to be separated from God. I hedge on answering
this question in this format of public debate because I have done less
reading and study on this difficult homosexual issue and more listening
to people who are gay and believers in God, or at least, looking for
God's approval, which is different than God's unconditional love. The
church has hurt an awful lot of gay people and the more I see the
fall-out, I can't feel good about quick online answers to this issue. I
do suggest www.becomingreal.org does helpful work with some of the
homosexual and Christian stories on their links.
Rob Misek from Whitby: I often
reflect on your response to my question from a few months ago. I had
suggested that religions need to recognize the dynamic truth as
discerned through logic and science not democracy. You responded that
you didn't have faith in humanity to improve upon the biblical texts.
Hasn't our understanding of the truth changed in two thousand years and
isn't religion supposed to align with it? To do so, shouldn't religion
recognize both parts of the human experience as separate but affecting
the completeness of the whole? The two being the need for blind
spiritual faith, and the need for physical rules based on dynamic
truth.
Lorna Dueck: Rob, I don't endorse
blind spiritual faith. I do embrace informed spiritual faith. It's
remarkable to me that we sit in this technology discussing questions
like this. It's a long way from the crowds that first gathered on a
shore to hear the implications of God's intentions for their lives as
Jesus talked it out to the curious. That these kind of conversations
about God can still hold an audience is proof that a dynamic truth is
at the core of it all.
Brodie Fenlon from Globeandmail.com: That
concludes our Q & A today. A sincere thank you to Lorna Dueck and
the many readers who sent in questions. Comments will remain open for a
time at this link.
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