Today
on Listen Up - Gay Marriage gets a round of second thought in
Canada’s House of Commons and the rights of children argue
against
a social experiment of same sex marriage …
Canada
is putting the final steps in place to close the public debate on
whether gay marriage should be permanent or not. While over 10,000
gay marriages have been legalized in Canada, there are still calls to
revisit the issue. Objectors are asking the government to set apart
a heterosexual marriage from a gay one. Today – we look at
one
the strongest reasons for that request – the future of
children and
their rights to know their genetic origins.
A
CONVERSATION WITH DR. KATHERINE YOUNG & DR. PAUL NATHANSON:
Doctors
Katherine Young and Paul Nathanson, also work with the McGill Centre
for Medicine, Ethics and Law. Dr. Young conducted a research project
for Ontario's justice department on the issue of Same Gender
Marriage, and is writing a book on the subject with Dr. Nathanson.
Dr. Nathanson is a gay man who says there is no compelling reason for
the government to promote same gender relationships, and that the
campaign for gay marriage undermines democracy. Dr. Young and Dr.
Nathanson join Listen Up from Montreal…
Dr.
Paul Nathanson: “Basically we don’t see any reason
for the state
to promote any relationship for an emotional basis. The state should
promote marriage for the sake of the needs of children, but the state
is not a therapist, and there’s no particular reason for the
state
to be involved in relationships unless of course there are children
involved.”
Listen
Up: Dr. Young, your concerns?
Dr.
Katherine Young: “One of the things that could happen is
fatherhood
can’t be talked about ….can’t use
bonding …well see less and
less fatherhood seen in families ……we could see a
real crisis
with boys ….families without fathers present, children have
greater
problems ….all of those negotiations between men and women
and
parents and children that go on in an intimate way could start
collapse with the removal of fathers….. as we move into this
experiment
Dr.
Paul Nathanson: ”As Kathryn says, it’s not caused
by gay people
but greatly exacerbated….. fostered by the state that has a
worldview that fosters in these problems.”
Listen
Up: You’ve taken some heat from your own communities on this?
Dr.
Paul Nathanson: “People often express surprise and even
dismay
that I being gay would not support gay marriage ….but an
underlying
idea here is that people have lost the sense that in a democracy
involves commitment not only to personal and group interest, but
ultimately loyalty to a larger entity which is society itself. So
if you don’t have that sense that some policies
don’t benefit me
personally but benefit the whole, then you fail to have a society at
all. In fact you have a collection of competing interest groups.
Listen
Up: Dr. Young – where do we go from here?
Dr.
Kathryn Young: “You can see we think the traditional
definition of
marriage should have been upheld in Canada ……we
need to have a
commission to look at the rights of children in Canada …..we
need
to do that for all children but especially as research as we follow
how children develop in these new marriages ….and what
happens to
HS marriage as a whole when its no longer upheld as a worthy
structure to society as a whole …..to all kinds of issues as
a
whole …….this will be the new issue that will
come to the surface
now.
MARGARET
SOMMERVILLE
Dr.
Margaret Somerville is the founding director of the Centre for
Medicine, Ethics and Law at McGill University, where she holds the
Samuel Gale Chair in the Faculty of Law and is a professor in the
Faculty of Medicine. As a consultant to numerous government and
non-governmental bodies, she has worked with the World Health
Organization, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights
and UNESCO. She has received a number of honorary doctorates in law,
is the recipient of many awards, including the Order of Australia,
and is a Fellow of the Royal Society of Canada. Dr. Somerville is a
well-known speaker and writer, both nationally and internationally.
Wendy
Gritter has served as the Executive Director of New Direction
Ministries for five years. Wendy holds an M. Div. from
Tyndale
Seminary and recently completed the Executive Arrow Leadership
course. Wendy is passionately
committed to
creating a safe place within the Christian community for those
addressing questions of faith and sexual & gender identity to
journey towards wholeness in Christ. Wendy is
married and
the proud mom of three great kids.
Youth
- the issue, the message – by Wendy Gritter
Confusion
about identity - including gender and sexual identity - is a normal
part of growing up.
University
of Minnesota, Demography of Sexual Orientation in AdolescentsPediatrics, vol.
89, April 1992 (survey of 34,706 students)
At
age 12, 25.9% were "unsure" of their sexual orientation.
At age 17, 10.7% were "unsure". At age 18, 5% were
"unsure'. Almost all of those who had been unsure at age
12, by age 18 felt they were heterosexual (97%).
That
study was conducted in 1992 - before Ellen came out on TV, before
Will & Grace, Brokeback Mountain, before Brittany, Christina
and
Madonna locked lips on the VH1 awards.
Today's
youth are navigating very confusing times. Bi-sexuality in
many
various permutations is often seen as trendy and cool. Labels
are as powerful as ever - but the labels are ever-changing bi-dyke,
polysexual, pansensual, bi-queer....
Prevalence
statistics are notoriously difficult to nail down - but we're looking
at the likely reality of 3-4% of adults experiencing a strong
orientation towards sexual attraction to their own gender.
If
25% of 12 year olds 15 years ago felt unsure about their sexual
orientation - with 97% of them eventually concluding that they were
heterosexual - how many 12 year olds today - in a gay-saturated
culture - feel unsure and uncertain about their sexual
identity?
And
how many 15 year olds today are experimenting sexually with others of
their own gender - researcher Savin-Williams of Cornell University
would suggest that between 10 - 20 % are. And how many of
those
confused and experimenting youth may mistakenly assume they are
homosexually oriented given today's climate?
While
the normalization of homosexuality may benefit the 3-4% of
gay-identified Canadians - what does it do for 25% of young teens who
are trying to make sense of who they are?
Don't
misunderstand me. It is a non-negotiable that in Canadian
society all people regardless of sexual orientation be treated with
dignity and respect.
But
what we are seeing in our individualistic culture is that the desires
and needs of adults are trumping the needs of our children and
youth. Young people need not only the freedom to grow into
their sense of sexual identity - they also need a valuative framework
that will help guide them towards mature adulthood.
Part
of mature adulthood is the ability to form healthy, stable loving
relationships and families.
If
the confusion and sexual experimentation among youth is celebrated as
some degree of enlightened, evolved, and sophisticated
development, as an article in New York magazine did in the last
year, we do our youth a tremendous disservice and put them at
a
great disadvantage in developing future, stable healthy families.
New
Direction hosts a faith neutral youth website that seeks to offer an
alternative point of view to confused and questioning youth.
We
encourage youth to keep their options open and to give
themselves some time to figure out who they are. We
talk
about some of the influences and factors that contribute to
their uncertainty about their sexual identity.
We
get emails from kids as young as 8 years old - kids who think
they might be gay.
We
also get a lot of hate mail - from people who think we are
promoting homophobia simply by offering an 8 year old the
encouragement to hold off deciding whether or not they're gay until
they have the time to grow and mature a bit more.
It
is deeply concerning to me that the social climate is increasingly
hostile to any viewpoint other than a full embrace and
celebration of homosexuality. Because with this hostility we
leave many kids and teens floating in the wind - trying to make sense
of their confusion about their sexuality with very
few
options presented to them other than embracing a gay identity.
My
name is Dawn Stefanowicz, I grew up in a homosexual
household
during the 60s and 70s in Toronto, exposed to many different people
in GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, bisexual, Transsexual) subcultures, and
explicit sexual practices. I am currently writing a book, soon to be
published, on this experience. As well, I was a witness at the
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs on Bill
C-250 (hate crimes), and I have presented at the local school board.
My
biggest concern is that children are not being discussed in this
same-sex marriage debate. Yet, won't the next step for some gay
activists be to ask for legal adoption of children if same-sex
marriage is legalized? I have considered some of the potential
physical and psychological health risks for children raised in this
situation. I was at high risk of exposure to contagious STDs due to
sexual molestation, my father's high-risk sexual behaviors, and
multiple partners. Even when my father was in what looked like
monogamous relationships, he continued cruising for anonymous sex.
I
came to deeply care for, love and compassionately understand my dad.
He shared his life regrets with me. Unfortunately, my father, as a
child, was sexually and physically abused by older males. Due to
this, he lived with depression, control issues, anger outbursts,
suicidal tendencies, and sexual compulsions. He tried to fulfill his
legitimate needs for his father's affirmation, affection and
attention with transient and promiscuous relationships. He and his
partners were exposed to various contagious STD's as they traveled
across North America. My father's (ex)partners, whom I had deep
caring feelings for and associated with, had drastically shortened
lives due to suicide, contracting HIV or Aids. Sadly, my father died
of AIDS in 1991.
Are
my childhood experiences unique? According to a growing number of
personal testimonies, experts, and organizations, there is mounting
evidence of strong commonalities to my personal experiences. Not only
do children do best with both a mother and a father in a lifelong
marriage bond, children need responsible monogamous parents who have
no extramarital sexual partners. Parental promiscuity, abuse and
divorce are not good for children. If same-sex marriage is legalized,
a person, couple or group who practice any form of sexual behavior
would eventually be able to obtain children through previous
heterosexual relationships, new reproductive technologies, and
adoption due to the undefined term sexual orientation. This would
force all public and private adoption agencies to hand over children
into experimental relationships or risk charges of discrimination.
What
is the most suitable environment for children to be born or adopted
into? The many personal, professional and social experiences with my
father did not teach me respect for morality, authority, marriage,
and paternal love. I felt fearfully silenced as I was not allowed to
talk about my dad, his male housemates, his lifestyle and encounters
within the subcultures without being browbeaten and threatened by my
father. While I lived at home, I had to live by his rules. Yes, I
loved my dad. However, I felt abandoned and neglected as my needs
were not met since my father would often leave suddenly to be with
his partners for days. His partners were not really interested in me.
I was outraged at the incidences of same-sex domestic abuse, sexual
advances toward minors, and loss of sexual partners as if people were
only commodities. I sought comfort looking for my father's love from
boyfriends starting at 12 years old.
From
a young age, I was exposed to explicit sexual speech, self-indulgent
lifestyles, varied GLBT subcultures and gay vacation spots. Sex
looked gratuitous to me as a child. I was exposed to all inclusive
manifestations of sexuality including bathhouse sex, cross-dressing,
sodomy, pornography, gay nudity, lesbianism, bisexuality, minor
recruitment, voyeurism and exhibitionism. Sado-masochism was alluded
to and aspects demonstrated. Alcohol and drugs were often
contributing factors to lower inhibitions in my father's
relationships.
My
father prized unisex dressing, gender-neutral aspects and a famous
cross-dressing icon when I was eight years old. I did not see the
value of biological complementing differences of male and female or
think about marriage. I made vows to never have children since I had
not grown up in a safe, sacrificial, child-centered home environment.
Due to my life experience, I ask, "Can children really perform
their best academically, financially, psychologically, socially and
behaviorally in experimental situations?" I can tell you that I
suffered long term in this situation, and this has been
professionally documented.
Over
two decades of direct exposure to these stressful experiences caused
me insecurity, depression, suicidal thoughts, dread, anxiousness, low
self-esteem, sleeplessness and sexuality confusion. My conscience and
innocence were seriously damaged. I witnessed that every other family
member suffered severely as well.
It
took me until I was into my 20s and 30s, after making major life
choices, to begin to realize how being raised in this environment
affected me. My healing encompassed facing reality, accepting
long-term consequences, and offering forgiveness. Can you imagine
being forced to tolerate unstable relationships and diverse sexual
practices from a young age and how this affected my development? My
gender identity, psychological well-being, and peer relationships
were affected. Unfortunately, it was not until my father, his sexual
partners and my mother had died, was I free to speak publicly about
my experiences.
I
believe same-sex marriage will dispose of unique values esteemed
within marriage as recognized throughout history. Marriage needs to
remain a societal foundation that constitutes, represents, and
defends the inherently procreative relationship between the husband
and the wife for the welfare of their biological children. Children
need consistent appropriate boundaries and secure expressions of
emotional intimacy that are not sexualized in the home and community.
The
term "sexual orientation" does not distinguish between the
individual, feelings of sexual attraction to a particular person or
object, or the individual's sexual behavior or preferences. Thence, a
person practicing pansexuality, which is diverse sexual expression,
could not be discriminated against even with children present.
Are
the government and judicial systems playing games with children,
forcing upstanding citizens to tolerate all forms of diverse sexual
expression against their will, conscience and or religious freedom?
Why
is such a small, unrepresentative clique within the GLBT subcultures
wanting same-sex marriage? Mr. John McKellar, Executive Director of
H.O.P.E. (Homosexuals Opposed to Pride Extremism) has stated, and I
quote:
"It
is selfish and rude for the gay community to push same-sex marriage
legislation and redefine society's traditions and conventions for our
own self-indulgence .... Federal and provincial laws are being
changed and the traditional values are being compromised just to
appease a tiny, self anointed clique."
In
my opinion, same-sex marriage will put the human rights of the
individual in a higher place than what is best for society, families
and especially children. Canadians should decide and not judges.
Human rights were meant to protect the individual and not groups. In
this crucial debate, children's human rights have become secondary,
ignored and denied.
Moreover,
if Canadians do not stop same-sex marriage, we will lose all of our
freedom to address issues around sexuality with moral and religious
vigor. By the way, the gay agenda in schools may owe its origin to
Marshall Kirk and Erastes Pill who published the article "The
Overhauling of Straight America". If we do not stop Bill C-38,
the gay agenda will prevail in every Canadian public and private
academic environment, inundating school environments with advocacy
and sexually explicit resources and curriculum that mock parents'
authority, moral rectitude, and religious traditions.
Already
this is happening under the banner of anti-bullying, safe schools'
policies and through Gay-Straight Alliances. In reality, these
policies provide a direct legal entranceway of indoctrination,
desensitization, personal and political recruitment of our vulnerable
children by some gay activists within our schools while silencing all
students who oppose the gay agenda.
Similarly,
all those who oppose the Canadian laws recognizing same-sex marriage
would not be allowed to speak, express or gesture opposition, even on
religious grounds. Look how the hate crime legislation Bill C-250 has
instilled fear and is silencing the church. Did you know that the
separation of church and state was enacted to protect religious
freedom and conscience? Will religious freedom be trumped by sexual
freedom? Will religious faith expressions and practices by
individuals and organizations be prohibited by such bills as C-38 and
others? We have an obligation, for the sake of our children, to speak
freely and to direct the laws of our land.
Will
the Canadian government and judges legally promote unhealthy and
unsound environments that encourage motherless and fatherless units
through same-sex marriage? Ultimately, children will be the real
victims and losers if same-sex marriage is legally enacted. What hope
can I offer innocent children who have no voice? What price is Canada
willing to pay for sexual freedom, tolerance and diversity? Is that
price children's lives? Government and judges need to advance and
defend marriage as between a man and a woman to the exclusion of all
others for the sake of our children. DR.
NANCY HECHE Purepublicity@aol.com
DR.
NANCY HECHE brings a compassionate and practical approach to
some
sensitive and painful life issues. Nancy is an instructor at Loyola
University and Judson College in Illinois, and has earned a
master’s
and doctorate in Pastoral Counseling. She has a private practice in
psychotherapy where she specializes in communication and relationship
issues, and is a popular Bible-study teacher. She resides near the
Chicago area.
LIVING
IN THE SHADOW OF TRUTH Actress’
Mom Shares Family’s Story of Grief, Hope & Healing
Nancy
Heche alwaysdreamed of a happy life as
a wife and mother
but when her family began to unravel and shocking secrets surfaced,
she did what she knew best – ignored them and pretended thing
were
normal.
Heche
shares in her memoir, The Truth Comes Out: When
Someone You
Love is in a Same-Sex Relationship (Regal Books,
September
2006), the world of religious manipulation, her husband’s
double
life as a bisexual and his death to AIDS, the death of three of her
children, and her struggle to overcome personal prejudice against the
gay community.
In
recent years, Heche and her family were catapulted into the media
spotlight when her daughter, actress Anne Heche began a lesbian
relationship with comedienne Ellen DeGeneres. Still reeling with
anger from the death of her husband to AIDS, Heche was forced to deal
with feelings of disdain toward the homosexual lifestyle. She admits,
“I felt hurt, angry, alone and afraid and I had no one to
talk
to….Anne and I couldn’t find any common ground on
which to
communicate so that we could help each other.”
Rather
than excuse or blame, Heche bravely details her quest for perfection
and the mistakes she made in her life and ultimately admitting the
need to change her own life. Heche says, “This memoir shares
the
breakdown of my family and the transformation of my heart that took
me from fear and anger to love and respect for the gay
community… a
real-life testimony to the mercy of God who changed my heart and my
life.”
The
Truth Comes Out is a personal narrative of Nancy
Heche’s
journey through grief and despair from her husband’s death to
AIDS
in 1983 and three of her children. Heche lost a baby who died from a
heart defect, one daughter to brain cancer and her only son in a car
accident. Heche also details coming to terms with own personal doubts
in her faith and the shaky relationship with her daughter Anne, and
how she learned to overcome personal prejudice and embrace others
with the love of Christ. The Truth Comes Out includes
several testimonies from families and friends of gay people who share
their journeys - not yet finished, not all happy endings, but on a
journey of love and hope.
While
this
autobiographical tale is engaging, Heche's passionate mission to
overcome hatred among individuals on both sides of the issue is the
book's true contribution.
Publishers
Weekly
“It’s Anne… I’m
calling to tell you I’ve fallen in love…with a
woman. Her name is Ellen DeGeneres. It’s going to be in all
the media. I know this is a real surprise for you, Mom. I
can’t talk now, but I’ll call you later... bye,
Mom, I love you.” I felt so alone. Surely no other mother
– whose husband and father of her children who dies of
AIDS-ever had this happen. I secretly hoped that Anne’s
affair would last a week or two, maybe a couple months, certainly not
more than a year. That was as long as I thought I could live with
another broken heart. ~ excerpt from The Truth Comes Out
When it comes to
the vote for gay marriage, it’s pretty obvious
we’re deeply
divided, as a society we no longer have a common morality on sexual
preferences. But the question raised in today’s Listen Up
asks, can
we still have a common understanding of what’s good for
society?
You can read the views of McGill professors we interviewed today on
our website – those experts say the sky is falling on
children’s
rights on this vote. Gay marriage, they say, is the strongest
step we’ve taken so far to allowing children to be genetic
orphans. It’ll just be a minority of kids, but
…these are
competing rights, and the need is to always protect the vulnerable
who cannot speak for their rights. And speaking of
the
kids, I’ll think some more about our interview with Nancy
Heche –
her daughter and husband pursued gay lifestyles – she lost
them
both – her husband to AIDS, her daughter to estrangment.
I
know those aren’t typical gay family experiences,
but what is
typical is that God stepped into all the sexual confusion and helped
Nancy make peace with it. Nancy discovered God’s love for
her, and
her family. And here she was, sitting with Listen
Up –
giving away the love of God for this deeply divisive issue about our
sexual identities. Thanks for watching today
– as
always, there are great resources on our website connecting you to
all of the guests featured on today’s program and their
insights.
Watch us on line, on podcast and read more on this issue at my blog
at listenuptv.com Thanks for watching
this week’s
spiritual perspective behind the headlines.
Recommended
books (from New Direction) Loving
Homosexuals as Jesus Would: A Fresh Christian Approach
Chad Thompson (Brazos Press, 2004). Straight
and
Narrow: compassion and clarity in the homosexuality debate
Thomas E. Schmidt (IVP, 1995) Same-Sex
Partnerships? A Christian Perspective
John
Stott (Baker, 1998) Beyond
Rejection: the church, homosexuality and hope
Don Baker (Multnomah Press, 1985)
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On April 30, 2005 Lorna was privileged to receive an honorary Doctorate of Christian Ministries from Canada's largest Christian university, Trinity Western University. Lorna was recognized for the witness and leadership that Listen Up TV has provided in public messaging: "a leader in the voice of evangelical life in Canada."
